NeuFit To Improve Sleep & Increase Recovery – Garrett Salpeter

(0:00) Welcome to the sleep experience podcast, where we take a deep dive into the latest sleep hacks, (0:08) gadgets and strategies to skyrocket your productivity to new heights. Being a high(0:14) performer is all about resting at 100% so you can execute at 100%. (0:29) Hey, this is Riley, host of the sleep experience podcast.

If you want to become a productivity (0:44) machine, have genius ideas on my way, pop into your head, stop feeling so stressed, (0:48) build better relationships and generate more income. Optimizing your deep sleep can do just (0:52) that. Visit www.thesleepconsultant.com to learn more.

My guest today is Garrett Salpeter, (1:00) known as the health engineer. Garrett has taken his training in engineering and neuroscience and (1:05) used it to create NuFit and the patented NuBeat device to train doctors, therapists and professionals, (1:11) sports teams and universities, and how to apply NuFit with the patients and athletes, (1:16) helping them recover faster from injury and optimize performance. He is the best-selling (1:20) author of the book, The NuFit Method.

Garrett, welcome to the show. (1:24) Riley, thanks for having me. It’s great to be here.

(1:26) Yeah, it’s an honor to have you on. And I keep hearing, I do a lot of these podcasts with people (1:32) in the biohacking space, and it’s really interesting that NuFit, NuBeat, these always(1:38) come up each conversation. I think it’s really been monumental to a lot of people in helping(1:42) them recover with their physical performance.

But I’m always curious with each guest that (1:46) comes on the show, where does your journey all start with this? What was that origin story for (1:50) you? It was really like a perfect storm or a perfect Venn diagram overlapping of where my (1:59) interests and passions all met. So I was both a serious engineering student in college and also (2:06) an ice hockey player. I was playing Division III hockey mostly even then as a practice squad, (2:12) so I was never at risk of making the NHL, but I loved it nevertheless.

And it was kind of my entry (2:17) point into physiology and training, and just really became super passionate about the human (2:23) body. But also I had this engineering, and I thought I was going to be in engineering, (2:29) go on and do that probably professionally. And I had an experience when I was playing college (2:34) towards the end of my time there where I had an injury.

I had some torn ligaments, (2:38) and I was supposed to have surgery and be out for a few months. And I met a doctor who was (2:43) doing functional neurology and using older versions of direct current. And working with (2:51) this doctor, it was amazing because it was just unlike anything else I had done before.

(2:54) With the functional neurology, we were looking at the neurological response to injury about how (2:59) the brain and nervous system will shut down certain muscles and brace and guard with others. (3:04) And create hypersensitivity and pain and all these different things. And then with direct current, (3:08) we could see how applying these electric fields could actually influence the healing process.

(3:13) And going through this series of treatments, I was just blown away. I was so excited because(3:20) as a hockey player, I was able to get back on the ice faster. I avoided surgery.

I was back (3:24) in weeks instead of months. So that was exciting. But what got me even more fired up was as an (3:33) physics major, pre-engineering student, to find something that made sense scientifically from (3:38) first principles.

It was just so much different than any of the other physical therapy or (3:43) orthopedic medicine experiences I had before. And it just made sense in such a way that going (3:48) through that, I felt called to share the experience with as many people as I could. (3:52) And that ultimately set me on this path.

That’s incredible. I’m sure your brain lit (3:56) up and your eyes widened. And that’s the path that you want to take and keep going down it.

(4:01) I think that’s fascinating. And how many years ago would that have been? (4:04) So that, I guess I’m dating myself. It was my last year in college.

So 16, 17 years ago. (4:11) Wow. And then fast forward till today, could you talk a little bit about what you’re doing now and (4:17) the kinds of people that you’re helping? Yeah, absolutely.

So along the way, (4:21) I had actually used that older analog direct current devices with analog dials and things (4:29) like that. And for about seven or eight years, I actually started originally out of a chiropractor’s (4:34) office. Then we spun off our own thing, started a clinic here in Austin, Texas, (4:39) and was working with, initially it was people like me, athletes trying to recover faster(4:43) and then push the limits of fitness and performance.

And there’s applications because (4:48) we’re working neurologically, working with the nervous system. So that controls so many things. (4:51) There’s a whole breadth of applications, but over that.

And then since we were working (4:58) neurologically, every once in a while, someone would be like, Hey, can you help my friend or (5:03) grandparent who had a stroke? Or, Hey, I know someone who has spinal cord injury. And so we (5:06) started working with different people who have more of those neurological things. And then (5:11) eventually I kept seeing so many ways to improve the technology and bring it into the future.

And (5:19) finally decided to work with another team of engineers to create the newbie and launch that. (5:23) That trend has now continued of working with all this whole different swath of people with all (5:29) different types of challenges and circumstances. So it’s able to work with people recovering from (5:35) sports injuries, recovering from orthopedic surgery, recovering from trying to restore (5:38) function or recover after stroke, spinal cord injury, MS, neuropathy, and then looking at (5:44) fitness performance and optimization.

There’s also one protocol that we have that’s super (5:49) relevant for, for sleep, for your favorite topic here, you know, for shifting the body into a more (5:54) parasympathetic dominant state, helping with recovery. And we see improvements in sleep (5:58) scores on various wearable devices when we do that and clinical, clinical grade, heart rate (6:03) variability measurement too. That’s incredible.

Yeah. That’s when you can, when you track it (6:07) objectively like that, I mean, it’s, especially when you have an aura ring or the Apple watch (6:11) and some of these other trends, it’s amazing when people see their own scores go up as a coach, (6:15) your job becomes a lot easier because it’s the numbers speak for themselves. It kind of becomes (6:18) coaching tool, but that’s amazing.

But the newbie is able to do there. Can you explain a little bit (6:24) about the technology and how it works when someone comes to see you? Yeah. So there’s the biggest (6:31) differentiating factor is, is the fact that it’s direct current instead of alternating current.

(6:37) And people might see a device and say, Oh, there’s pads. You know, I’ve used that at my(6:41) chiropractors or my physical therapist office or in the athletic training room. I’ve seen that(6:46) before.

I know what it can do. There’s not very much in such a crowded space. Why would you need(6:50) another electrical device out there? And the answer is, well, virtually everything else that’s(6:55) out there is alternating current.

And this is direct current and has some, some meaningful (7:00) differences. And so then you might ask, well, why is that? Why are, you know, why are most things (7:06) alternating current if there’s such a difference? And there’s actually an interesting history too, (7:09) if I can touch on that for just one moment, which is a lot of these benefits of direct current, (7:14) which we’ll get to these benefits of direct current were known, but there was historically (7:18) one big problem, which is when you turn it up to a high enough level to make a difference in the (7:23) body, you actually would burn the skin. And so the Soviet sports scientists in the sixties and (7:29) seventies, they would literally burn their athletes and they could do that for mother Russia, (7:33) but like, we couldn’t do that over here.

Right. So, yeah. So they, you know, over here, (7:43) for that reason, direct current, essentially it was a case of the baby being thrown out with the (7:47) bath water, direct current was thrown out in its place, came alternating current.

And there are (7:52) some benefits to alternating current devices. You can apply electric, electric signals and get some (7:56) muscles to pulse and move and things like that. But, but you’re limited both in what you can do (8:01) for the healing process and in the realm of neuromuscular reeducation, which means essentially (8:07) reprogramming the body, the nervous system specifically to, to move better, to engage (8:11) muscles for better strength, range of motion, coordination, balance, et cetera.

So, so the newbie (8:18) and direct current allow us to, to have really two main categories of benefits that you don’t get (8:23) with traditional devices. And one is that effect on neuromuscular education, because we can bypass (8:29) a lot of the, not only the muscle contractions, but the protective co-contractions, alternating (8:34) current, the signal goes back and forth, back and forth. So you end up training muscles on both (8:38) sides of joints to fight against each other because you get that signal front, back, front, (8:42) back, or a positive, negative, positive, negative.

So, so it’s like training the body to move as if (8:46) you were hitting the car, or if you were driving your car and hitting the throttle and the brake (8:49) pedal at the same time, you’d be like fighting your own internal resistance. So there’s some (8:54) limitations there. So we can bypass a lot of that and just speak more directly to the nervous system.

(8:58) And so one of the things we can do, for example, is actually scan around. I don’t know if anyone, (9:02) you know, if you’re listening, you don’t see this, but if I’m scanning around with a electrode on my, (9:06) on my shoulder here right now, so we can send that, that feedback, send that signal and find (9:12) very precisely where the nervous system is, is imposing these protective patterns on the body. (9:18) Cause it’s, it’s not necessarily about the, what happens to us, the initial injury, as much as it (9:23) is the response to that injury.

That’s why it takes so long to recover. Why it takes extra (9:27) weeks or months to recover from sprains, strains, tears, surgeries, et cetera. And so we can find (9:33) where that response is and rapidly retrain or re-educate that.

So, so over 90% of patients (9:39) notice progress in their first session on the device because that direct current, it’s basically (9:43) like a software debugging allows us to find where those issue issues are. And then fortunately that (9:48) also supports the long-term trajectory of healing. And we get to take advantage long-term of those (9:54) direct current electric fields that like I talked about with my torn ligaments, that, that electric (9:58) field gradient helps orient and optimize the function of all the cells that control healing (10:03) of various tissues of the body, bone muscles, tendons, ligaments, nerves, et cetera.

All those (10:08) will, will heal better under the influence of that current too. So there’s, there’s multiple (10:13) benefits there and it definitely stands out within the, within the electrical field.(10:19) Yeah, no kidding.

And it’s amazing how it provides that like one session relief care. (10:24) And then you have that acute care of whatever that injury or, you know, that, that pain or (10:29) whatever that thing is that people are experiencing, you’re really getting to the root (10:33) cause of that and healing that source as well. And it’s, I love how it’s all kinds of people.

(10:37) You have high performers where time is money and they need to recover in a short period of time. (10:41) I like to talk a lot about, about passive recovery and active recovery. You can do that passive (10:46) recovery and it takes longer, or you can just do the active recovery and just, just such a short (10:50) period of time.

You have that now new opportunity cost of other things you can do, whether it’s (10:55) your business or physical performance and things like that. So I find that’s amazing. What if, (11:00) what kind of I know you used to, you touched on, you work with all kinds of people with this (11:06) specifically the high performers, what is the, is it more injury risk or do they come to you (11:12) feeling fine and they’re just looking to improve their maybe muscle reaction time or overall (11:17) performance? What does that kind of look like on that kind of top 10%? (11:22) So there’s, I mean, I’d say there’s kind of two categories.

There’s the high performing (11:26) athletes and then there’s the high performing, you know, executives, leaders, people that, (11:32) that aren’t, they’re not getting paid for, for their physical performance or getting paid for (11:35) their mental performance, but they still want to, you know, perform at that level and treat (11:40) themselves like athletes too. So in, in both cases, you know, we certainly, if people do get injured, (11:46) being able to help them recover just much faster, more efficiently and effectively (11:51) is, is certainly a value proposition. But then we think about what we can do (11:57) once they’ve healed or if they’re not injured at all, what, what can we do(12:00) to optimize their training to make it, make it more effective? You know, so then it’s looking(12:06) at goals.

We can use this cause there’s a, you know, if we want to program someone nervous system (12:10) to be faster or stronger or to improve their balance you know, we can, we can do that. We can,(12:18) we can train faster coordination and relaxation of opposing muscles. If we’re working on speed, (12:23) we can train greater recruitment of muscles.

So you teach someone that the neurological skill (12:29) of strength, which means the neurological skill or signal to contract more of your available muscle (12:35) at the same moment in time. And so the, you know, there’s, there’s all these different things that (12:40) we can train to make training more like the training of the future. There’s more precise (12:47) dialed in, less wasted time, more bang for the buck, better ROI.

And then there’s also, (12:52) there’s also the, the, you know, the downside of being like super hard charging type A, (12:56) whether it’s the athlete with a grueling schedule or the executive athlete who also has a grueling (13:02) schedule and other demands, you know, being able to do, for example, what we call the master reset, (13:08) which is our electronic meditation where, you know, someone will actually lie down, you know, (13:14) for as little as 10 minutes, maybe up to 20 minutes. And that, you know, if you think about (13:18) just doing a guided breathing exercise, for example, you know, diaphragmatic breathing for (13:23) that period of time will increase heart rate variability to some degree, but if you do it (13:27) with the pads set up, so it’s basically just pads, some pads on the neck, pads on the feet, you, (13:31) you sit or lie down, ideally lie down flat or in a reclining chair and have this going. (13:36) And we’ll see that, you know, measured with clinical heart rate variability measurement (13:42) devices.

We’ll see, you know, this, this, the benefits someone will get in heart rate variability (13:47) from acupuncture or deep breathing will be, will be good. But when we add this, it’s like (13:52) three or four or five times more significant. So training people to be able to get into that (13:59) recovery state, it has acute benefits.

And when we do it more often, it has cumulative benefits (14:04) on sleep and helping people recover. So some of it is performing better and getting more bang for (14:09) the buck in those sessions. And some of it is, is getting into the place where we can recover (14:14) more effectively so that we can go out and do it again, because so much of being a high performer (14:18) is the consistency of being able to do it right over and over and over again.

And, you know, (14:24) sometimes getting to the top is a war of attrition. It is. Yeah.

Yeah. It’s a, yeah. Once (14:29) you get up to the top, it’s, it’s definitely a different climate.

No, I find that’s incredible. (14:33) And that, you know, that efficiency and people’s ability to really train that it’s, it’s almost (14:38) something too, you don’t know until you try and you like, what does better heart rate variability (14:42) feel like? And what is better recovery and stuff like that feel like I got my first dose of it (14:47) in Victoria and also Santa Monica. They had the bulletproof upgrade labs and I don’t think they (14:52) had your device, but you know, like the pimp machines and these other ones, like you can (14:56) really beyond just going to the doctor and getting a prescription, you see this whole other world of (15:02) biohacking and just what the future holds with all that technology.

I think it’s fascinating. (15:06) And the newbie is, you know, it’s kind of a frontier along, along that I think is truly (15:10) incredible. So the newbie can help people sleep better with better sleep comes better recovery.

(15:16) Could you touch on a little bit about sleep and how the newbie, I know you touched on a little (15:22) bit about before, but how the newbie can help sleep better. And if you know anything about (15:28) while sleeping, how it can help with that physical recovery as well. (15:32) Yeah, for sure.

So one point actually, since you mentioned upgrade labs, so Dave Asprey actually (15:38) has our device at his, had it in his alpha labs up in Canada and uses it personally. There’s (15:46) for their, for their, you know, they obviously they have other great technology and stuff in (15:49) there too. This had a little bit of a learning curve, whereas a lot of the things there are (15:53) just kind of more self-serve or things like that.

So we’re waiting to, we’re kind of discussing for (15:58) how it could be worked into the model, but they do really cool stuff at, at upgrade labs. And (16:02) Dave actually wrote about our product in his most recent book too. So that was, that was kind (16:07) of fun.

But in terms of sleep, there’s two, there’s two main benefits. One is just, you know, picking (16:13) back up on that conversation about the master reset or the electronic meditation, doing that(16:19) anytime of the day is good. It probably even better, even better to do before bed.

So some (16:23) people have devices at home and we’ll do this before bed. It’s even, but anytime you’re doing (16:29) it, what you’re doing is you’re shifting into a more parasympathetic dominant state. So there’s (16:33) sympathetic is fight or flight when we’re, you know, mobilizing energy to meet a challenge.

(16:38) And then parasympathetic is rest and digest or feed and breed when we are recovering from that (16:45) challenge, replenishing energy, digesting food, eliminating waste, rebuilding structures of the (16:50) body, devoting energy to long-term growth and repair processes. Right. So, so any, anything that (16:55) we do to help shift the body there in this day and age, when virtually everybody has too much (17:02) stress from, you know, we’re constantly bombarded with information, you know, phones, beeping devices, (17:08) deadlines, right.

It’s just, you know, totally different society than it was a couple of (17:12) generations ago. So, so that that’s helpful at any time of day when you do it, it’s helpful because (17:18) you’re just kind of flexing that muscle metaphorically of being able to get into that (17:22) state. And the more often you do it, it’s like with meditation, the more often you do it, (17:26) the easier it is to be able to relax on command, like when you need to, to fall asleep at night.

(17:31) So, so there’s that benefit. And then there’s also the component of, in order to sleep really well (17:36) at night, I would suggest that, you know, I mean, the sleep hygiene and things, you know, (17:41) locking blue light after dark and circadian rhythms. But I would suggest that one of the (17:45) biggest levers you can pull is to tire yourself out during the day, right? Build up that adenosine.

(17:51) So you build up sleep pressure. So being more active, doing more during the day (17:56) is one of the best triggers to cause people to sleep well. And when you, when you do rehab or(18:03) training sessions with the newbie, one of the cool things that happens is that you get a lot(18:09) of neurological input.

So your brain really gets the point, a little bit of a simplification, (18:14) kind of to describe it this way, but essentially your brain really gets the point that something (18:19) happened. You’re getting so much neurological input that your brain understands, hey, we really (18:24) worked hard. Hey, we really need to shift into parasympathetic dominant mode and recover from (18:29) this challenge.

And so a lot of people will report a few things. One is that they, they have a little (18:35) bit more of an appetite, which is good because that means their brain is saying, hey, we need to take (18:39) raw materials and rebuild and repair. They report, sometimes they have more regular bowel movements (18:45) or more effective bowel, which is good because again, that’s the same thing.

Parasympathetic (18:49) system is stimulating the organs to work better, more effectively. Also, you know, sometimes the (18:55) first time someone does a session, they’ll be like, man, I was, I was tired that night, or, (18:59) hey, I needed to take a nap later that day or something because they’re, they’re getting that (19:02) shift where their brain is saying, hey, we need to sleep. We need to go into deep sleep to rebuild (19:06) and replanet, rebuild and repair all the structures that, that were challenged during the day.

And then (19:11) also REM sleep to remodel these neurological connections, to adapt to these new skills, (19:16) these new neurological pathways that we, that we have to integrate in, you know, in, in the next (19:23) days ahead. So we see typically improvements in sleep. I know I wrote a little bit in my book (19:29) about like, you know, some of my aura ring data and how using the newbie I’ve been able to get, (19:34) you know, virtually all the time above the, or past the point where at least 50% of my night is (19:39) between deep and REM sleep, you know, from doing this type of training, I had one screenshot in (19:44) there of a particularly interesting night where I had like, you know, 30% REM and like 40% deep (19:50) sleep or something.

It was one of those like very efficient nights. They’re not all like that, but, (19:54) you know, they’re closer and closer, you know, getting better and more like that. And this type (19:58) of training I think helps a lot because it’s just really, you know, it’s intense enough where it (20:04) crosses that threshold, wherever the brain really knows we did something, it really creates (20:07) a bigger shift into that recovery side of the nervous system.

Amazing. That’s, it’s fascinating. (20:14) What excites you about the future of tech, the newbies going where, you know, the forefront (20:19) of genetics, biohacking and everything, what’s, what’s sort of on your radar? Oh, I think there’s, (20:27) um, there’s a lot, there’s certainly things in terms of in our field, but also, uh, where, (20:33) you know, biohacking or, you know, wellness, functional medicine, where all of that’s (20:37) going to, I think, uh, being, you know, being able to monitor data is so good.

And when we’re (20:43) talking about sleep wearables, and I know obviously you have a lot of experience with that, (20:46) you know, things like CGMs, sleep wearables, you know, tracking HRV in real time. I love this. (20:53) In terms of our field, um, we’ve been playing around with this, this concept of actually doing (21:00) the HRV measurements in, you know, in the clinic in real time and seeing how someone’s doing and (21:05) structuring their rehab or training based on that.

Sometimes we’ll actually start with that (21:11) master reset I talked about earlier. You know, if someone comes in and they’re just, (21:16) you know, just feeling wasted or just totally having like, like fatigue or, or wasted or hung (21:21) over, you know, either, if they’re either meaning of the word, but, um, just really having trouble (21:25) keeping up with the stresses and challenges, and it just wouldn’t be effective or responsible to (21:30) really push them that hard that day. You know, sometimes we can do different things to give (21:35) them what they need.

So I think the theme, one of the themes there is just more personalization (21:39) based on data. Uh, and that’s whether that’s blood tests and assigning nutrient strategies, (21:46) or whether that’s, uh, data for us, um, you know, finding out exactly where weaknesses are in the (21:55) physical therapy more effective. So for us, one of the things that we’re working on is, (22:00) like I mentioned this process where we scan around on the body and identify (22:03) where there’s these, you know, hotspot or trigger point type areas that show (22:09) where there’s neurological guarding, where the muscles aren’t working as well or as effectively.

(22:14) And we, um, we’re one of the things that we’re working on is ways to actually measure electrically (22:19) how much impedance or resistance is happening there. And how is that changing? So being able (22:23) to quantify that. So getting more data there is, is, uh, one exciting project.

Um, and then (22:28) another exciting project actually I got to mention is, um, is using, using the newbie (22:34) as a treatment for neuropathy. We have a study going on right now that, uh, should be published, (22:39) you know, so hopefully by the end of this year, which is 2023, but we’re seeing, uh, you know, (22:44) multiple hundreds of neuropathy patients. So it’s like diabetic neuropathy patients in their (22:49) sixties and seventies, where it’s been written off that they’d ever really regain any function (22:54) or have any meaningful healing.

And we’re treating them. There’s one group is getting the newbie. (23:00) Another group is getting just traditional alternating current electrical stimulation.

(23:03) And as expected the group with traditional alternating current, not getting much benefit,(23:07) but the group with the newbie we’re seeing, even in those patients where it’s been written(23:11) off that they could ever make progress, right. We’re seeing nerve regeneration, remyelination. (23:15) So one of the things I’m excited about is, is really rolling this out as a treatment for (23:19) neuropathy because there’s, there’s tens of millions of people in, in the United States (23:24) alone that have this and it’s, it’s debilitating.

I mean, it can be extremely painful. It can, (23:29) it can make people very weak and less functional. It can make their feet numb and increased risk of (23:34) falling.

And we know if someone falls, you know, and, and breaks the hip or something, (23:39) you know, uh, appreciable percentage of them die within a year. And it’s just typically the (23:44) beginning of the end. So, uh, there’s so many, so many opportunities to help people there, (23:48) but a few things I’m excited about.

I’m no kidding. Yeah. I mean, you’re, (23:53) you’re changing the world there from, from the high performers all the way to the neuropathy.

(23:57) So that’s incredible. Any last words of wisdom today here for listeners before we close things (24:01) off? Oh, listen to Riley on, on sleep. Uh, I would say, um, I mean, I, I think, I just can’t,(24:11) I mean, of course that’s so important, which if you’re listening to this podcast, you probably(24:14) already know.

So, but this can just, mine can be one more voice telling you about that. Um, and then (24:20) I picking up back up on that theme of, of data, I would encourage people, whatever your goal is,(24:25) you know, try to see if you can find a business. You talk about KPIs or something, right.

And you (24:30) talk about how, what gets mannered, what gets measured, gets managed or what gets measured, (24:35) gets improved. And the same thing is true, I think for us personally. So, um, I would encourage (24:40) people to, you know, if you, if you have a goal in mind, you want to be better in some way, (24:45) get some sort of metric around it and, and try things and treat yourself like an experiment and, (24:51) um, you know, get advice from the right people and, and get the highest likelihood of success, (24:55) but really track what you’re doing because the other good news is we’re getting into an era (25:00) where I think a lot of things, well, there’s always, always bullshit and things that don’t (25:05) work and you’ll find they won’t work for you.

But there’s, there’s a lot of, you know, (25:09) things that, that, you know, we know, thanks to Riley and getting information out and, you know, (25:14) people like you doing this work, there’s a lot of things that can help and can move the needle. (25:18) And when you find the right one for you, it can be a real game changer. (25:22) Love it, Garrett.

Well, thank you so much for coming on today. Words of wisdom. I learned a (25:26) lot.

I’m sure our listeners did too. People want to learn more about you. Where can they visit? (25:29) Uh, best place would probably be our website, www.new.fit. So N-E-U like neurological.

Uh, (25:38) and then we’re on social media, most active on Instagram, uh, new fit RFP for rehab fitness (25:45) and performance. Uh, and then if you’re interested, I’ve also have a, uh, my book,(25:49) the new fit method is out on Amazon. It’s called the new fit method.

(25:53) Awesome. And we’ll put all that down in the show notes below. Thanks again.

(25:59) No problem. It’s, it’s honestly an honor to have you on. Thanks so much for listening to the guys.

(26:04) I hope you enjoyed the show. If you would like to learn more about how sleep can benefit your (26:07) personal business life, visit the sleep consultant next time. Thanks for listening to the sleep (26:14) experience podcast.

We’ll see you next time on next week’s episode, be sure to subscribe and (26:20) follow us to get future updates on everything, sleep, energy, focus, stress, and better performance.